Trump Says “You Can Be Evil” So Long as You Get Good Ratings

Donald Trump spelled out his media philosophy in audio recordings released Tuesday, explaining everything he learned from his time hosting NBC’s The Apprentice—and subtly revealing just how much power he believes he has over the media industry and the American public.

In newly released audio from a 2023 sit-down conversation with Variety editor and author Ramin Setoodeh, Trump mused about the limitless potential of being a TV personality—including that the high-profile position allows one to be “evil” and the “most horrible human”—so long as your program grabs attention.

“So, if I went back to NBC right now to do something, they would do anything I wanted to do, showbiz-wise. I’m talking about,” Trump told Setoodeh. “Doing a show, anything I wanted to do right now, 100 percent.”

That’s because “show business” is all about one thing, per Trump: “ratings.”

“If you have ratings, you can be the meanest, most horrible human being in the world,” he continued. “There’s only one thing that matters: ratings. You can be nice, or you can be mean, you can be evil, you can be horrible. You can be crude or elegant. There’s only one thing that matters, and that’s ratings.”

Trump: It's all about the ratings. If you have ratings, you can be the meanest, most horrible human being in the world. There's only one thing that matters. You can be nice or you can be mean, you can be evil, you can be horrible. You can be crude or elegant. There's only one… pic.twitter.com/izOmB3nwxw

— Biden-Harris HQ (@BidenHQ) July 2, 2024

Trump may have learned that final lesson in 2016, when he re-earned enough of the public’s favor to win the presidency despite a hot mic leak from a 2005 Access Hollywood interview that caught the former TV host bragging that he could force himself onto women and practically “do anything” he wanted to because he was a star, including “grab ’em by the pussy.”

Recalling his interview with Trump on MSNBC, Setoodeh said that Trump appeared to suggest that he was “being wooed” to return to TV.

“That’s the TV star in him,” Setoodeh told Nicolle Wallace Tuesday. “He wants people to see him as a TV star. A successful TV star, and that’s the philosophy and way in which he views the world and the way he governs, if you could call it governing.”