Kirk Ellis and Howard Korder (‘Franklin’ writers): ‘No one in this story was an idealist’ [Exclusive Video Interview]

Writer and producer Kirk Ellis initially pitched his limited series “Franklin,” based on a biography by Stacy Schiff, as a cross between a John le Carré espionage novel and Ellis’s Emmy-winning limited series “John Adams.” As he developed the project over a number of years and was joined by co-writer and producer Howard Korder, the project became about more than just telling an interesting historical story. “Many other things came aboard on this,” he explains, “but also following very much in the spirit of Stacy Schiff’s book as well, which incorporated elements of espionage, romance, intrigue and political machination.” Watch more of our exclusive chat with Korder and Ellis above.

Currently streaming on Apple TV+, “Franklin” stars Oscar and Emmy winner Michael Douglas as the titular Founding Father as he spends nearly a decade in Paris negotiating with the French government during the American Revolution. Although the series focused on negotiations that changed the history of many nations, Korder is quick to point out that nothing of what took place was the result of any grand idea for humanity. “No one in this story was an idealist,” he argues. “I think in his way, Franklin was, but they were not pursuing a utopian ideal. They were after whatever they could get under the circumstances, on all sides.”

While the series depicts Benjamin Franklin trying to get something out of France, Korder argues that France had an unusual hold on Franklin. “It’s true that Franklin did his very best to seduce France, and France absolutely seduced Franklin,” he says. “That’s the more personal side of the series. He really was enamored of France and of the French, and I think if circumstances had been just a little different, he would have stayed.”

In the title role, Douglas bears little resemblance to the real Franklin. Discussions about using prosthetics to change Douglas’s appearance were quickly abandoned. “It’s Michael’s gifts and his charms and his wiliness,” argues Korder. “I think you want to see the persona through that as opposed to a full on impersonation, which would always be questionable.” Ellis adds that Douglas’s celebrity status was an asset to the role. “For me, it’s the fact that you’ve got essentially a historical superstar being play a modern superstar of film and TV,” he says.

Rather than focus on battles and warfare, both Ellis and Korder argue that it was more important to focus on the power of diplomacy and negotiation. “This idea that action speaks louder than words, that’s not the case of what happens,” says Ellis. “Diplomacy is about words speaking louder than action.” Adds Korder, “No matter what the conflict and no matter how intractable and how long it goes on, if it’s going to end, it’s going to end with people sitting in a room talking about the terms. There’s really no other way.”

PREDICT the 2024 Emmy nominees through July 17

Make your predictions at Gold Derby now. Download our free and easy app for Apple/iPhone devices or Android (Google Play) to compete against legions of other fans plus our experts and editors for best prediction accuracy scores. See our latest prediction champs. Can you top our esteemed leaderboards next? Always remember to keep your predictions updated because they impact our latest racetrack odds, which terrify Hollywood chiefs and stars. Don’t miss the fun. Speak up and share your huffy opinions in our famous forums where 5,000 showbiz leaders lurk every day to track latest awards buzz. Everybody wants to know: What do you think? Who do you predict and why?

SIGN UP for Gold Derby’s free newsletter with latest predictions